At least they were able to join the white establishment due to their color. Black slaves were the alternatives because they could bear these conditions, and also knew farming techniques which they carried with them to the New World. 10. I have to go back and check to see if the word slave is even in it. So if Irish slave girls intercoursed with black slave men, how did the Irish names carry through? There is much debate over the original meaning of the term black Irish. There were no Irish slaves in what is now America. African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). I would love to know who you are to me , I want to know my roots from the mother of all mothers Africa .The Carrolls missing abd forgotten children.. Wrong. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.amp.html. We highlight the most inspiring experiences Ireland has to offer. Ill take everything you have, thank you! Africa was named after a so-called white man by the name of Scipio Africanus. As with the Vikings, these were viewed as a people of "dark intentions" who ultimately colonized much of the Eastern part of the country and several larger towns. Famous OConnors include singer Sinad OConnor, novelist Flannery OConnor, and retired United States Associate Justice of the Supreme Court Sandra Day OConnor. Irish names and surnames are steeped in our country's rich tradition and centuries of history. The Africans were considered less than apes, incapable of learning, and the forced inter-breeding with the Irish women was eventually made illegal because it was considered an abomination to force even the least among White women to copulate with an animal. http://www.irelandseye.com/irish/traditional/names/first/dudley.shtm, The name Dudley in Ireland is often of immigrant origin having been introduced into Ulster Province by settlers from England and Scotland, especially during the seventeenth century. It is not a contest it is a reminder that many people suffered under the ruling monarchies of England. The Gaelic word for foreigner is "gall" and for black (or dark) is "dubh.". African to African forced breeding was not even a thing, much less from another race. the first anit miscegenation laws were passed to prevent such mixing. I have a hard time following the discussion here, but I have made many replies. the protestants in belfast are from scottish/english back gronds. So, f**ck the traitorous bastards. I am in no way minimizing the African slave part of history, it is through this history of the Irish to say we can relate and understand an awful part of human history. Im so saddened and grateful for all of your research on this. By the mid-19th-century, Byrne was one of the most common Irish family names in Wicklow, recorded 1203 times. The Irish were brought over as indentured servants. This is a damn sight different than chattel slavery. Although, the much to the contrary; if youve ever studied world history, youd realize that slavery has happened in just about every culture at one time or another and has been happening at every point in time in mankinds history including the present. It was these conquerors who sold off the conquered to the Europeans. I enjoy being educated, there is so much to learn that I wish our young people were taught, so they would love instead of hating each other. Blog where a high school dropout or even a liam hogan can go and change irish slavery to irish indentured servitude on a daily basis lolto those who used him as your source grow up!!!!!! Variant of Donoghue. Theres no question that the Irish werent treated very well. I watch an old Irish movie years ago and when the old lady washing her clothes in a pan was cursing someone saying what the rass cloth,. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the masters free workforce. Therefore, this preposterous on-going debate only goal is to keep the Blacks monopolizing the atrocious history of slavery. Did they live off the land, eat a lot of potatoes? I always wondered why a lot of families there had Irish last names (Riley, Dubbery etc.) We must stop perpetuating that the Irish were slaves, it is a fallacy. In many cases freed slaves took the surname of people who were also kind to them. Reblogged this on Eccentric and Bent and commented: good reply. My last name is Shanks n I just learned from my dad that iam part Irish. The vast majority of labourers who agreed to this system did so voluntarily, but there were many who were forcibly transplanted from the British Isles to the colonies and sold into indentured service against their will. Several varied groups of multiracial people have sometimes been referred to as or identified as . Was that what drove the slave trade in the last millenia? They were abused and belittled for being Irish and Catholic; they were considered worthless and heathenbut they were seen as worthless and heathen *humans*, at a time when being heathen was a much bigger deal than it is now, even while being traded as property. Sad! we were brought up to fight oppression we refused to fight the mexicans when sent there by americans. In June 2020, Darker Still Spirits . My name is John Orr and im dark ass hell any Orrs on here. No need to compare the two as slavery in any form or fashion is wrongno matter to what extent it was practiced. I had learned of indentured servitude among the Europeans. Many of our foremothers were raped by the ships captains and the dozens if not hundreds of white crew members. 2. In the sixteen hundreds EVERYONE came as indentured servants including Africans. We need to revisit the discussion from a fresh perspective. Early Origins of the Black family. The large wave of Irish immigrants to the US in the 19th century has no direct lineage with the Barbados group, were granted the status of whiteness very early, and were actively involved in violent attacks on Blacks, Asians and other ethnic groups competing for jobs. Basketball player Blake Griffin and comedian Kathy Griffin are two of the most well-known people with the surname Griffin. Thats what the bulk of my Irish ancestors really were: Scottish, English, Cornish, etc. Visit The Information about Irelandsite to read more about Irish history, culture, and heritage. OBrien has been a prominent surname in Ireland for centuries. Wealthy irish were Protestants who were placed there by England to control and rule the Native population. While plantation owners certainly did rape and father children by enslaved women, many were absentee owners who only visited their plantations seversl times a year, this is especially true in the Caribbean. Their original homeland was Monaghan, where their surname is still the most common. She has travelled Europe, Africa, America, Asia and Australia and still claims that wanderlust tempts her daily. How did Blacks end up with Irish names? So I picked up those big fat ugly crayons .. https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/04/19/how-myth-irish-slaves-became-favorite-meme-racists-online. And they did this systemically and repeatedly. the ira was formed so we could have more rights. Those issues are the racism, the bigotry and the discrimination we face daily. Why cant we acknowledge all the suffering that occurred without saying whose may have been more painful. Television host Dermot OLeary is one of the most famous bearers of the name. Then, for many of the worlds most powerful and influential nations of the time, this is where slavery was put to an end. Kelly (46480) 3. In a generation where so much information is consumed via hearsay or processed by means of social media, oftentimes, we can forget to dig into research like in the old days. I assumed it had transferred from plantation owner to slave but instead it seems like it transferred from Irish slave to African slave. One of the most famous Buckeys is singer-songwriter Jeff Buckley. This forced labour was in essence an extension of the English Poor Laws, e.g. Indeed, they legitimately had reasons for their grievances too. By the mid-19th century, Connor was the most common variant of this name. Anyway, this was a great read. If it wasnt profitable, they wouldnt have done it. Ireland Before You Die (IB4UD) is the biggest Irish travel and culture website. If Irish and blacks suffer slavery together, why is it only the blacks that lost their surnames and the Irish somehow retained their surnames and a knowledge of who they were [IRISH]?!? Karen, first and foremost thank you for your reply. If youd like to learn more about my opinions on indentured servants Ive provided some explanation and sources on this tread in several replies too. Nile of the nine hostages was a bit of a devil. The Central Statistics Office regularly records Walsh as one of the most common surnames in Ireland. Only a few took on the last names of their former owners, some took names from the Bible. McDonald, McFadden, and not take the last names of the slave owners, of Smith, Washington, Jefferson, like the black slaves did. There are a number of Irish Surnames like Duffy that specifically refer to Black. It should be titled How SOME Blacks Have Irish Names the Who, When, Where matters. Natives did not participate in the slave trade. Follow the links below to find out more about Irish last names. That meant they came here and worked their debt off and paid for their freedom. This is very informative. The Scots Irish, also known as Scotch Irish (especially in USA) or Ulster Scots (especially in Northern Ireland), are an ethnic group found in the province of Ulster in the north of Ireland Genealogy. The Black men were getting all the women. Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories. The english continued to try to extinguish the Irish through starvation, oppression etc in Ireland. Smh. The Irish have, throughout history been very cruel to African Americans so let them the many of them wear the title of red neck like it is their badge of honor. They can reveal locations or even a familys trade, such as a fisherman, for example. This historical issue is clearly more complicated than most people give it credit for being. Captured irish were SLAVES, and nothing but slaves, no matter how these hysterical (fake) leftists are trying to prove otherwise. The truth is, you are an Israelite. So no, they werent only raped by the master but any children born of these rapes became the property of the plantation owners. Second, there was intermarriage in the caribbean with descendents from the cromwellian slave trade of the Irish and African slaves. All of the people I have ever met with the last name Orr have been white, Im a brown girl. But have you ever wondered where it comes from? English treated Irish deplorably. Well, human enough to retain their own name. Is not because of Irish slave owners, no erase that foolishnessdont think Gone With The Wind and the OHara plantation. There is little evidence to support this theory and it is unlikely that any significant number of Spanish soldiers would have survived long in the war-torn place that was 16th century Ireland. slaves thus we have Irish names like McFadden, McDonalds ~ I think you will find McDonals is a Scottish name. The most Blake families were found in USA in 1880. Black Dutch (genealogy) Black Dutch is a term with several different meanings in United States dialect and slang. Modern examples of Irish/African being Barack Obama, Muhammad Ali, Dr Martin Luther King, Dr Henry Louis Gates, Colin Powell etc Even in modern times the two groups live in a lot of the same places, vote the same way politically, and both historically have been devalued unfairly by the Romanized world. Irish were indentured servants,which lasted 7 years. If it were slavery, as the Africans suffered, it would have been called slavery. And, yes, African tribes did it as well! Well my last name is carmickle. They were dispised, were not allowed practice thier own religion, keep their own gaelic name, Own any kind of property, and denied the use of thier own language. When enslaving whites/Christians became illegal in the U.S., the newly released white indentured servants became crackers/overseers and many became slave owners themselves. Notable Cunninghams include American professional basketball player Dante Cunningham and football quarterback Randall Cunningham. The Irish are Iber-ish (Hebrew man) No, they liked they Irish accents so much that they took on the names out of respect. Maybe because the African names were too hard to pronounce. We have to stop making up excuses for white slaveholders and the damage they inflicted onto their black captives, including the removal of our names and stripping us of even the knowledge of knowing where we are (specifically) from as the Irish, English, Spaniards, Scottish, etc. You all talking rubbish, Under 800 years of English rule millions of irish died at the hand of the British. This country was built on slavery of Asians, Indians, and Africans followed by the systematic oppression of those people by the English and Dutch. Famous Regans include actress Bridget Regan and talk-show host Trish Regan. Shame on you. Very few are disputing that the British were horrific to the Irish, and to some extent, the Scottish as well. The term "Black Irish" has been in circulation among Irish emigrants and their descendants for centuries. Its now being used to paint the picture of white persecution and victimization and to deny historic institution racism in the US. A few known facts and a few overstated kernels of truth give a false, gleaming varnish of Truth Exposed when twisted around implications and presumptions based on false logic, when theyre confidently stated as reality, and lead the non-critical reader to unquestioningly believe exactly what the writer has skewed their words to lead them to believe. It is unlikely that the exact origin of the term will ever be known and it is also likely that it has had a number of different iterations, depending on the historical context. As for how, I insist on the qualifier some, of the Blacks got their last names, I think this may just be embellished truth. Much of their strange language is left over from the Gaelic that once was spoken widely in those hills. Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). Am Afro-American. Until then, Africans were primarily indentured servants, just like the Irish and other white immigrants to the New World. It generally refers to racial, ethnic or cultural roots. Sure there is a difference, but servant is a perhaps a misnomer. A great book to read is:To Hell or Barbados. Thus, welcoming a new wave of dark-complexioned Irish people. Indentured is a form of slavery. Evidence of last names in Ireland appears from around the early 900s, making it one of the first places in Europe to adopt hereditary surnames. Therefore, this is a moot point and if youve somehow drawn that conclusion on your own, it speaks more to your intellect and character than true facts. In part, bigotry came into play in order to ease the conciseness of individuals who partook of the benefits of slavery. Black Irish (film), 2007 independent film by Brad Gann. My grandmother was an indentured servant who came over here from Ireland to work with an English family later on my grandfather saw her or met her and decided to purchase her freedom from that English family so she so she was actually a slave / indentured servant herself, I was under the impressionthat the Irish came to America as indenture slaves. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Throughout history, all nations and races are guilty of slavery. Unlike African slavery ,the Irishs story was not widely publicised. Adam and Eve are my ancestors as well as yours DNA has proven that we all tie to the original humans they lived in Africa. Actress Chelsea Kane is one of the most well-known Kanes. Theyll come up with terms like Indentured Servants to describe what occurred to the Irish. There is far too much historical EVIDENCE of the inhuman way Africans were treated. Some would conquer their enemies to gain power, land, wealth and additional wealth by selling their slaves to slave traders. O'Connor is a surname of Irish origin. The Healy familiar is a wonderful exemplar. O'Neill 11. They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. However, Ireland considers itself a dual speaking country, so visitors can expect to see both English and Irish on public service signs and announcements. Probably. We respect your privacy and take protecting it seriously, How to plan a trip to Ireland (in 9 steps), Irish boy names that nobody can pronounce. This fact is recorded in ancient China, Egypt and Mesopotamia. What Oliver Cromwell did in Ireland was a genocide. Dont forget modern recorded history versus older nonrecorded history or minutely recorded history. Thats the type of history that should be taught in schools. O'Connor 10. The whole thing is rotten no matter who. As far as Irish slaves being treated worse than African slaves, not true. While you certainly do make some points, you also seem to be confusing a few. Adam and Eves bloodline was where JESUS came through, if people only knew this all this hatred for each other skin color would not exist. I am mixed with other things but my maiden name is McClure. I am quite sure that being held against you will is inhumane regardless of your color or religion. There is no logic in that a hybrid race slave would be any more profitable than a hard working African slave, and has no basis in historical fact. Irish slaves were still white. Just like her arguing the distinction between different slave treatments. Famous owners of the Irish last name Byrne include actress Rose Byrne, actor Gabriel Byrne, and singer and Westlife member Nicky Byrne. I know where mine came from. Indentured servitude is a form of slavery not *voluntary servitude*. I get so tired of hearing about these damn Edomites (ie the Irish) and how they have suffered. As most of the slave owners were of Anglo-Celtic descent, these are the names that the African-Americans were saddled with. It is claimed that the Spanish married into Irish society and created a new class of Irish who were immediately recognizable by their dark hair and complexion. I am sure that the Irish were treated as less than other white settlers, but to say their treatment was equal to or worse than the treatment of African slaves is not probable. Copyright 2019 - 2023 Ireland Before You Die | Trading under, TOP 100 Irish surnames / last names (info & facts). There are a number of different claims as to the origin of the term, none of which are possible to entirely prove or disprove. Like, Im confused. Famous Kennedys include 35th president of the United States John F. Kennedy and his family. Ryan (30795) This is so true, Africans have claimed slavery as their own. It is commonly found in County Tipperary and neighbouring counties. But you will find out the truth when JESUS comes back to reign for a thousand years to teach his people the truth, because they have been believing a lie about a rapture theory. The brits found you in the new world, the so called African Americans are really the native americans- the moors. Disgusting lies like this are akin to Holocaust Denial, and its no surprise that one of the authors circulating this myth, Michael Hoffman, is in fact an outspoken Holocaust Denier. Also: Indentured servitude did not last as long as or was as vast as outright chattel race based life long slavery in America. Fourth, historically the highest amount of interethnic marriage between two ethnic groups post civil war are Irish and African. Bullshidt!!!! This article attempts to make little of the term, indentured servitude, but the term has legal and Biblical definitions that give it limitations. Originating from France, the Normans were a primitive, powerful group of fighters who were first welcomed to the Emerald Isle, led by Dermot McMurrough, a king of Leinster (one of the islands four provinces) in Ireland. Leo Whelan was an acclaimed Irish portrait painter. Again get creditable sources!!!!!!!! Words are powerful, they are spells (we are spelling) the word black in middleages means pale. Yes, Irish were often seen as lower than low, called black Irish or Irish niggers, but dont confuse abusive language with being a slave. I can say MacIntyre, I dont know what a Mwanajna is, Ill call you Mo. Similar to many of the Americanized name changes coming through Ellis Island. 37% of African American men can also trace their paternal ancestors, their Y-DNA, to European men who impregnated an African American female, most probably in the context of slavery. White people can treat their own quite horribly, history tells. The Irish were treated as less of a person than blacks, maybe not worthy of the slave owners name! Scot-Irish synonymous with Ulster Scots of partitioned Ireland not natives of Ireland in the recent sense of this discussion. Share your favorite stories with other history buffs in the IrishCentral History Facebook group. My great great great great grandfathers name is the same as mine. Such a great read! Although some of the indigenous people eventually earned their way up in status and they imported slaves from the African slave trade, the overwhelming majority of the oppressed was still the South America natives. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. Im curious. Slaves were never considered to be humans, but rather, chattel, and were subject to the whoms of their masters. The traditional image of Vikings is of pale-skinned blond-haired invaders but their description as "dark foreigners" may lead us to conclude that their memory in folklore does not necessarily reflect their physical description. So stupid its almost funny, but instead its depressing cuz its so ignorant and shows how gullible these liberal assholes are, just looking for someone elses cause to bear cuz they gotta help those poor, downtrodden folks recover their true histories, and file a lawsuit against the government so they can assimilate into modern society and buy organic and get a job in IT or in the arts or a good non-profit..fuck you. They either came to America as slaves, or moved to America in more modern times. As English rule in Ireland intensified at this time, it became increasingly difficult to find work if you had an Irish sounding name. From its love for traditional art forms, including Irish dancing and trad music, its affinity for a creamy pint of Guinness, or its endless stream of iconic artists, including Oscar Wilde and Bram Stoker, Ireland is a small country with a big personality. So, to put the record straight, find out below about the Black Irish. Located off the western shores of Great Britain, the small island nation packs quite a punch when it comes to its heritage. They became very wealthy and powerful at the expense of their foes and rivals. Who were the black Irish? Some sources propose that the term is in reference to Spanish soldiers. One of the most famous Johnstons is American actress Kristen Johnston. I understand what youre saying ny brother. Is a Black slave with an Irish father any less Irish than African? In America and even somewhat in Europe, Black skinned people enjoy a monopoly of the history slavery and its oppressive effects. White indentured servitude was so very different from black slavery as to be from another galaxy of human experience, as Donald Harman Akenson put it in If the Irish Ran the World: Montserrat, 1630-1730. Gallagher is one of the most common hereditary surnames in County Mayo. Im curious to know how/why the Irish slaves were able to keep their Irish last names?Traditionally slaves had to take on their owners last name. Murphy (56648) 2. One of the most famous Thompsons is actress Emma Thompson. The West, wrongly puts Africa, which is a continent not a country, as all the same people. Disgusting hypocrites and totalitarians, thats what they are. Schools should teach more about this stuff, because its part of a neighbouring history which may not be NOT told. https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/%E2%80%98irish-slaves%E2%80%99-convenient-myth. smh. So it comes as no surprise that no matter where you go, you tend to run into classic Irish names. Sure the law condemned them, but do they have any less right to their heritage than a White person? Gallagher 15. A blog to follow. O'Reilly 12. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. They live as second class citizens and are called red-legs and red-necks etc by the rest of the population due to their fair skins getting burned by the sun. They didnt want to go to war on behalf of the African American, well thats what they thought it was about,, even though we all know that the civil war wasnt about the liberation of the black slaves. Though we dont want that ugly past to be forgotten, rewritten or soften to make Whites feel better about them-selves, the issues we worry about are those we have to deal with currently. As I said an Irish female slave mating with an African slave could not transfer his last name because it was the name of a white owner, if an Irish male slave mated with an African slave she would not get his slave name, it would be the property of the white owner, riddle us this??? They got to keep their last names because they were easy to pronounce.. Its common sense guys. 1847 was known as "black 47." In Gaelic, the Irish native language, the word for black (or dark) is dubh, and foreigner is gall. Those who completed their term of service were awarded freedom dues and were free. Working is a choice and they get paid for their work. Black Irish (album), 2017 music album by American singer-songwriter Shannon McNally. But there are many others who have suffered under slavery, the Irish as you mentioned here, also the Scottish, Jews (black, German, French..). Famous Dalys include American actress Tyne Daly, television host Carson Daly, and actress and TV personality Tess Daly. Ben Frankin was indentured for a time to his own cousin. Comedian Frankie Boyle, as well as musician Susan Boyle, are two of the most well known Boyles. Sure, later on, some were indeed indentured servants (not really that much different from common slaves) but in Orwells time vast majority were slaves. The origin of Irish sounding names in America comes from four places. ^ this. Are we interested in championing numbers or political views here? It was also used in Ireland by Catholics in Ulster Province as a derogatory term to describe the Protestant Planters. This was a passage from the book noted above. Or, Is what happened to the Irish just a mere part of what happens to all, and to any of the different nations of men who are affected by the wicked works of the heathen? If they committed a crime that warranted jail time, they deserved the sentence. if you go to a protestant area in belfast they are putting polish and africans out of the area. Brennan 29. I am a Jamaican and I do know, based on teaching, that whites were experimented as slaves for a short period; however they failed to be productive in the climate and harsh conditions. Once they were accepted as white around the Depression, they quickly became as racist as any other white person during that time and hurriedly left the neighborhoods they were living in with Blacks. They said the Irish were treated better. B. Im getting pretty sick of people (of all races) whitewashing the oppression of the Irish from history because it doesnt fit with the white skin = oppressors, everyone else = victims narrative. They were owned by an Irish family. If they were able to keep their names and their identities, there is no way that Irish people were treated as poorly as African people. As far as calling them slaves for working while serving their sentence (BS). Famous McDermotts include actors Dylan McDermott and Charlie McDermott. The African slave trade was a better deal. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves. Have you met Jesus . There is truth in what you say.
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