May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM United States. But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. My advice is to get fit as cheaply as you can and find some newer distance irons on Ebay or BST that can fit you. Bounce means nothing. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? Espana. Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. Would they still be ideal? The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? I will also need to bend my irons 2 degrees flat according to a lie board. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? PXG 0311P Gen 3 - 5to PW - Nippon 125 X Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". I did this to reduce the spin rate. Furthermore, he was 15th at the end of the first round on debut here last year and 11th after Thursdays round at the correlative Corales in the Dominican Republic. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. Mizuno irons can be adjusted to varying degrees depending on model and material type. 759 Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. If your intent is to modify them by making them one degree strong, you will be changing the play of the iron, and also the physical appearance possible (could be debatable if the human eye can tell one degree, I'm not sure since I have never had to do this to any of my sets.). Still many worries about bending lofts due to bounce changes, and many also thinkthat shafts can lift or lower ball flight by changing dynamic loft, but without anything happening to bounce, but that cant be prevented, bounce always follows loft no matter if loft was changed due to bending, angle of attack, or adifferent shaft, all 3 scenarios has the same changes. What if I get those numbers with a 7-iron, or a 5-iron? Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. It flies lower and that is about it. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. Feb 3, 2013. You can post now and register later. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. A Good Fit for a Clubfitter is the Post Fit. Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. Might actually help on hard ground. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Paste as plain text instead, On 7/12/2018 at 3:15 PM, PoeKingShankspeare said: Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. Thanks for everybody for your help! I know my distances with the Ping set too well and I dont want to go through a whole season of trial-and-error with new irons, so would it make sense to have my new Mizuno irons bent to the old Ping specs? So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. (others have mentioned) I went to GG with my pops and hit the speedblade 9i for sheets and was hitting them 165-170why? Your link has been automatically embedded. The refit yielded a super driving iron. Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 10.5 set at small - May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. And here is why. Your email address will not be published. Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. ProV1x-mostly. The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. Not sure about the AP2s. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. You won't notice it. Sure. Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. The concern is that all the fitting carts only have 6 irons and with the gaping on the 3, 4 and 5 irons lonely being 3* I am concerned on irons would react to my adjustments. If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. 5 Testers Needed! If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. More photos from the event here. How Long Do They Last, Driving Iron Advantages and Disadvantages, You are using clubs that are too tall for you (easy fix is to change the shaft length), You stand far away from the golf ball when making a swing. Golfers who know this information will have a much easier time controlling their ball flight, hitting the center of the clubface more consistently. I realize it is hard to write to such a diverse audience, but Im going to give it my best with this post, and pose the basic two questions to each of you : If the answer to No. Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. GolfWRX_Official A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell Well this article outlines a variety of statistics which will help you pinpoint which areas of the game you are above or below average. Restore formatting, Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ Copyright 2020 GolfWRX Holdings, LLC. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. Callaway 2018 MB irons Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. My old callway x forged dug more than my bent mp-4's. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. 1001 Industrial Blvd Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. 2. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. By Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? Still have questions? So to get the most performance out of each iron, for these low ball hitters, we need to add loft. But what about the mid and low irons, yes I understand some companies make 6/7 hybrids (7 and up is very rare), but you can not really replace an 8 iron with a true hybrid. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. The average golfer hits a 7-iron to around 30 yards from the pin. Barring physical limitations, anyone can learn to hold the club properly, and you can practice it anywhere from the sofa in front of your TV to your office while on a call. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. Good question. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. IG: golfer_scott Thats not to say this exotic land doesnt bring a classy winner. Odyssey #7 Tank, I got a set of Titleist 716 cb that are bent 2 degrees strong (they end up being 1 Degree weaker than my old z745 I believe). Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. Paste as plain text instead, The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. I think it depends on the player and his swing. By GolfWRX_Official I know it will increase the bounce. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. I would advise you to not try it yourself unless you have experience in doing so professionally. This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. Don't think you'd notice a difference of 2. That is why getting the numbers is so important. Study those players and mimic their set-up and you will take another giant step toward playing better golf. Seriously. Sounds like it's a long iron. Display as a link instead, I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. The basic fundamentals of striking a golf ball have not changed nearly as much as golf club technology, and those fundamentals have their roots dating back a hundred years to Bobby Jones and his peers or even further. If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. It wasn't so much the distance I was concerned with but that I hit it a bit too high with a normal swing and it caused some issues on windy days. 2023 Acushnet Company. The main reason it is done on GolfWRX is so people can brag how far they hit their irons, generally with a passive brag. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. i dont need that. SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood Great article! Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. By NYonce. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. ** Due to coronavirus and the work restrictions in place here in Michigan, for international orders, please email info@mitchellgolf.com for a complete quote. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Below, you'll see the results. But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! What I havent seen mentioned is that iron shafts have changed a great deal and offer more low kick (higher launch/spin) options to be able to match with those lofts. If you really want to improve your golf, you must define where you are losing the most strokes and start there. The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. Good info to pass along regarding COG. I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Yes, thats essentially what Im asking. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! Then if your wedge gaps are off you might tweak them a degree. But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert Like most things in life, the real answer is it all depends, golf is probably the only sport where they use generalization to describe something that is quite complicated. Typical launch angle would improve from 13-14* to 17-18*. I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? Are their ways to ensure a club wont break? Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. St Louis, MO. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. Pros and cons? Display as a link instead, Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? **. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. Undershooter Including me. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. ENTER NOW! Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. A lot of mixing and matching Everyone's comments are super helpful! Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 Cast club heads made of industrial steel are all on the so-called "unbendable list". It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X Can you bend a metal wood? Contact Us How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. Upload or insert images from URL. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. I also don't mind the little more offset I don't over cut it. Sounds like it's a long iron. Required fields are marked *. Upload or insert images from URL. (more on this down below). My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. A wind-affected island track that offers rewards for aggression. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Hi! Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. I have mine bent 2 degrees strong and cannot see any visible difference. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. Can someone please discuss the advantages and disadvantages of increasing loft on an iron by 2 degrees? Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. I meant decrease loft and make stronger. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. Surely getting consistent results and regular yardage gaps between clubs is more important than shooting for some ideal stats that may go against your natural swing? if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood, Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use. How will that affect it though? I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. Bending the loft is another story. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. St Louis, MO. Pasted as rich text. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. Add loft for distance?????? Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Remember, the set is not necessarily progressively consistent from one club to another, and therefore each club should be checked. Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. As far as lofts for amateurs go, I feel like long irons have to little difference between them. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. on tight fairways. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. How much of static bounce is positive at impact?..we have to start from a static bounce of MORE than the difference to have any, and 31* minus 20.2* = 10.8 static bounce is needed to get ZERO. . Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. The market is fascinating this week, with world number 376 Andrew Novak leading the field. You can post now and register later. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. Not a dispute with the OP, maybe even validation, but what about head style? I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges.